I'm thankful we're not in Mumbai.


lizpolaris - Posted on 27 November 2008

119 dead and over 300 wounded in a coordinated raid of 10 locations in one city is the horrific toll so far.  Does a large terrorist attack gain any notice in the US if it occurs during a US holiday? 

I'm thinking definitely not, so this latest rash of violence seems especially pointless.  The previously unknown group claiming responsibility for this attack appears to have tried to target Britons and Americans, according to one witness.  Though it's hard to see that strategy being carried out very well, what with random shooting at a train station and a restaurant.  Most victims are Indians.

I checked in with the news again after we completed our family Thanksgiving dinner, at which I summarized my annual gratefulness with the title of this post.  Latest reports say that one luxury hotel has been secured but the standoff continues after 48 hours in other locations.  Hostages are still being held; bodies still being found.

I'm musing about a few things after hearing about this.  What could be the aim of these crazies?  This attack has no retreat plan so it's a one-way ticket to death for the perpetrators.  They have some message?  Americans on holiday aren't going to be listening so the average citizen will be no more scared today than yesterday.  Will Britons or other nationalities be more scared after this?  I guess the question really is - is a person more afraid of a random event now than before the attack?  I can't see how.  I know I'm afraid I'll be hit by lightning or felled by space debris.  The likelyhood of any individual being involved in a random act of violence by extremists is probably about the same today as yesterday.  Maybe our government will change the alert status at our airports to 'Oranger.'  So I think sowing fear as a message by these new terrorists probably didn't work so much either.

Certainly the Indian government could do better with their intelligence agencies in getting advance warning of potential terrorist threats.  India borders Pakistan so their level of threat is greater than the US.  I'm sure it's difficult to keep track of militant crazies - those you know about.

And what about the idea of the war on terror - does this prove we still need our vague windmill-tilting slogan?  I think not.  There have always been terrorist groups (didn't we used to call these guerillas?) and will continue to be.  It's a matter of how we deal with security issues and follow political policy to defuse situations that could foster terrorists or support/sympathy for terrorists.

When the GWOT was declared by The Deciderer I was still naive enough to have a moment of optimism.  Great, I thought, violent Palestinian groups will be labeled as terrorists and we can have a good reason to assist the Israelis and peaceful Palestinians to create safety within a Palestinian state (independent or not) and bring some prosperity to those downtrodden folks.  Great, I thought, racist domestic terror groups stockpiling weapons or bombing abortion clinics can be targetted and broken up.  Silly me - everyone knows that terrorists are Muslims with brown skin.  Any other acts of terrorism are not that, get it?

I'm sad for the folks in Mumbai, India (will I ever get over thinking of it as Bombay?)  Too bad they are in the front lines of this insanity right now.  I still want to visit someday;  I hope you'll find a way to cope with today.

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Ron's picture

This coordinated attack by islamic terrorists included the takeover of the Chabad Lubavitch Jewish Center where some were killed and the rest taken hostage. Indian commandos are trying to free the hostages.

The point of Islamic terrorism is to spread terror with the aim of disrupting any western economy. For a really interesting insight into what's going on in general, please see:

The night that changed the world

minority to  abuse.  So that wasn't surprising.

I will check out the video.  I have read quite a bit about what's going on in general and the history of it and I still am completely at sea about why terrorists think they are doing their supposed cause any good.  Their actions bring no benefit to their own people and cause little harm to the mythic beasts they imagine they are fighting.  Spread terror?  I'm more afraid of dying in my bathroom.

And clearly, like the Soviet Union, the US and the rest of the world are quite capable of ruining their own economies thru greed and mismanagement - neither of which is influenced by terrorists.

I still maintain that terrorism is just insane, organized criminality.  The best way to combat it is to foster political alliances which expose the ridiculousness of that type of solution over constructive action.  If their own people don't support them, they will not continue.

Here's the best commentary I've seen yet about how to cut off funds for radical Islamic terrorists:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michelle-haimoff/deepak-chopra-on-mumbai-t_b_146837.html

Independently adrift

NewHampster's picture

Terror has the aim of creating terror and more importantly the reaction to terror.

What they hate most is freedom of choice.  Freedom of choice goes against their religious belief which is in reality a tool of the ruling class to keep the poor of the muslim world happy being poor.  Islamic terrorisim rose as the Soviet Union deteriotated.  Something, some great satan had to distract the world and the muslim people from looking at the feudal systems keeping people impovished and freedom at bay.

Terrorism keeps the kings in power by forcing societies such as ours to react in a way that brings us closer to the feudal system and farther from freedom.  Osama Bin Laden has won big time since 9/11.  Witness the Patriot Act, wire tapping, Guantanamo. 

Will the new messiah restore our freedoms and give a finger to the terrorists?  That is what I am waiting to see.

 

Civil Discourse - ERA - A Mother President - Women's Rights - Primary Reform

but I do think that the 'aim of terror is terror' is irrelevant.  That's true for gangs trying to control a neighborhood, drug cartels trying to control supply and demand.  With those elements, the individual has some idea what the goals of the criminal group are.  With 'terrorists' the goal is - for people to be afraid.  In my view, wandering around in fear is what idiots do.  This is why we have Pres Chimpy in a dither for 8 years and our legislature happy to pass any anti-constitutional law that comes across their desks, such as the Patriot act or FISA.

Actual leaders aren't cowed by criminal thugs, but of course those have been in short supply in the US, due to how we elect people based on their American Idol-type ability to be popular.  Effectiveness?  Meh.

Back to passage of the Patriot Act and FISA and similar legislation - it's more convenient for large corporations and protects them from legal remedy.  That's the real goal - which they could easily scare into being, with the help of Homeland Security orange alerts.  Somehow, I have a lot of trouble believing that the beneficiaries of those laws were afraid of anything but losing money, not sleep or peace of mind.

Also, I see the rise of Islamic terrorism and the demise of the USSR as coincidental, not causal.  I don't think the Russkys were/are doing anything to keep terrorism at bay.  We cooked up this mess all by our lonesomes - we didn't need any help.

I'm also amused by this 'they' who hate freedom of choice.  Oddly, this sounds like the same 'they' who are keeping Americans from choices in healthcare, alternative energy, atheism (freedom from religion, in that case), transportation, etc.  I see this 'they' as the current corporate megabillionaires who want to stay in power in the US.  How are they different from Muslim Imams who want to stay in power?  Not much, IMHO.

This is why I find it really hard to objectify and distance from these 'terrorist' people.  The world over, people are the same.  We pretend we can't understand 'them' or that their crimes are special so that we can villify them into monsters and easier kill them or annihilate their culture.  This is why I don't want to go there.  I see this 'terrorist' behavior as essentially criminal in nature.  To combat it, neutralize the causes and the support.  It was done before in the US with the KKK.  We can do it again, but it's going to take international effort this time.

Independently adrift

to the night that changed the world. 

It's a very long article about the reverse racism and "Pod" thought processes which have resulted in Europe's increasing capitulation to Islamic extremism and America's selection of Barack Obama. 

If I may be so bold, I'd like to sum it up in two phrases...

1.  White guilt

2.  The dumbing-down of our society

NewHampster's picture

As I stopped reading about two thirds through, I wondered if somebody would translate for this dumbed down old fart.

Thanks Creep Kiss

Civil Discourse - ERA - A Mother President - Women's Rights - Primary Reform

Ron's picture

It's very hard for me to read long articles like that one since I'm dyslexic. The only way I can do it is by reading

to my wife or getting the computer to read it to me. One of the key excerpts:

 

Generation Y, particularly its “racism” obsessed women, might have been named as well for that portion of their buttocks showing between the low-slung jeans and the dorsal tattoo. Superficial differences notwithstanding, their aggressive stupidity, lockstep thinking, shallow conformism, and boundless enthusiasm for The One are portrayed most convincingly in a documentary film, Triumph of the Will, made in another country, in another era: Germany, 1934.

Our people have been snatched and they will not return to normal, ever. Except after a catastrophe, which is the probable end of Body Snatcher society through a confluence of economic, energy depletion, demographic, and jihadi scenarios. All catalyzed further through the Idiocracy factor, with the West’s population degenerating continuously with respect to intelligence, learning, use of language, culture, values, discernment of the good, the true, even the useful.

We will not be able to prevent that catastrophe; we can only learn how to survive it and emerge stronger, and serve then as a core model for the disoriented, shell-shocked multitude of the Pods.

 

Bottom line: lots of voters voted against their own best interests but were unaware they were doing so.

 

 

Ron's picture

Shadow World: Resurgent Russia, The Global New Left, and Radical Islam

It's a little long but well worth reading. Excerpt:

…the United States is at a critical crossroads. Parallel Marxist and Islamist movements are currently underway with established fifth columns at all levels of American society. If either of these totalitarian ideologies infiltrates the power structure, the liberties enshrined in the Constitution and Bill of Rights would be jettisoned and capitalism and freedom eliminated in the service of the collective "greater good" or in the name of the Prophet Mohammed. Shadow World, is Chandler's explanation of the dangers facing the United States. How we respond will determine if the country will sustain a free market, capitalistic democracy or veer precipitously toward autocracy or theocracy.

Folks, put this together with the other article I linked above and the picture is quite clear.

NewHampster's picture

find our own island to run off to?  Maybe just Italy.

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Ron's picture

We can go to Alaska and help with the secessionist efforts. Sarah Palin can be the president of the Alaskan Republic. It'd be energy self-sufficient. ;)

NewHampster's picture

I could get me a little fishing lodge or maybe the job of blogger in chief for the PUMA Immigrant Diaspora Society Of Alaska (PISDOFA)

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Ron's picture

Mumbai jihadis foil media attempts to whitewash their motivation by massacring house of pious Jewish innocents; Arab news agencies ignore Jihadis' massacre

Jihadist terrorists (including 7 born and raised in Great Britain) massacre 6 innocent western Jews among 150 slain in Mumbai, 327 wounded.

http://www.democracybroadcasting.com/

Actually, I see a parallel between the Mumbai terrorists and the Obama campaign.  I don't think the attack/terror is to accomplish a specific goal for them or for any particular group of people, but to rile up and focus anti-Western sentiment among their own troops and to spread the anger among sympathetic and persuadable people.

Remember all the images of (some) Palistinians and people in Syria et al after 9/11 celebrating the blow struck against the U.S. and western countries generally?  It was as much a recruiting tool as anything.

During the primaries and the ge campaigns, that was one of the key aims of all the CDS and PDS.  All the lies and distortions, against either of them, and the cries of racism against non-Obama folks always intensified whenever Obama started to fall in the polls or Clinton/Palin did anything to prove their own popularity.

There are other goals, of course, but a big part of the attacks (not just Mumbai) are about recruiting and riling up the troops.  The sad thing is that while most of the world looks on in horror and revulsion at Mumbai, here in the U.S. we put a big fat stamp of approval on the sort of political zeitgeist terrorism practiced by both political parties now.

NewHampster's picture

Civil Discourse - ERA - A Mother President - Women's Rights - Primary Reform

...Axelrove in the basket?  :?

"Right wing sledge hammers never, ever help us."  Pacific John

NewHampster's picture

wouldn't he be the one playing the flute?

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