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Maybe? Maybe we drank the Kool-Aid
Maybe we've been had.
I mean it. Maybe for the last X years we've been drinking kool-aid. Maybe, just maybe we've been listening to the wrong people.
We all know the world is upside down. We're living a Vonnegut novel that ends before it starts, where left is right and right is left. Up is down and down is up.
A fantasy world where Democrats follow a Rovian Rasputin and Republicans follow a Truthsayer.
Well here's something else to think about.
We just had our first Tweety Awards and gave a deserving Maureen Dowd the honor of being the first.
Think for a minute about all our nominees and the nominees we'll be tearing apart next week. Tweety, Markos, Dowd, Cafferty, Jeralyn, Sally Quinn, Andrew Sullivan, Campbell Brown. A few others were suggested but the point is.
Find me a winger in the list. Find me a Fox news commentator. Find an O'Reilly, Gibson, Novak, Kristol or Will.
Sexism, Misogyny, whatever you call it seems to be coming from the left not the right.
I had the thought that maybe they've been preparing to do battle with Hillary for the last few years and intentionally dropped sexism from their commentary. But I don't really think so.
What I saw Wednesday night was a Republican party that does what successful republican business people do. They may fight change but know when to quit, accept change, embrace it then move on. Highly successful businesses, when they see game changing technology coming, buy it and embrace it while their competition gets rolled over. The Boston Globe, purchased by the NY Times, was an early big investor in the Web because they follow the theory that it's better to be the one putting your old ways out of business than to let other people do it to you.
We think Republican's fight change and in moral and some policy ways they do, but sometime back a decade or so they saw strong women wanting to get involved. Being smart men they shut up, embraced the women and moved-on. On the other side, being a Dem all my life, the Democratic party is stifling. There is no room for people who don't believe in Gay marriage or abortion. Either you tow the "progressive" line or get out.
Another way to look at it is how the South, the home of the KKK and last bastion of segregation, is now so much more liberated than many of our know it all Northern states and cities. Things end, the fight is over and people move on. Many times those closest to the fight have the easiest time embracing former enemies (politicians too, unlike us supporters).
Two or three times in our history the parties have flipped. Before the last flip, the anti-slavery, federalist Republicans of Abraham Lincoln fought the slave owning Democrats.
At the second Republican national convention, in 1860, a hard-fought contest resulted in the presidential nomination of Abraham Lincoln. The Republican platform specifically pledged not to extend slavery and called for enactment of free-homestead legislation, prompt establishment of a daily overland mail service, a transcontinental railroad, and support of the protective tariff. Lincoln was opposed by three major candidates—Douglas (Northern Democrat), John Cabell Breckinridge (Southern Democrat), and John Bell (Constitutional Union party). Lincoln collected almost half a million votes more than Douglas, his nearest competitor, but he won the election with only 39.8 percent of the popular vote. http://ap.grolier.com/article?assetid=0245550-0&templatename=/article/ar...
Is this one of those times when people on both sides, unknowingly embrace the teachings of the other side and swap places? Have the last eight years so shook the Republican psyche that a few years from now the GOP will be the forward thing party and the Democrats will be stuck in reverse?
Please don't throw the standard liberal arguments at me. Roe, Guns, Taxes, Deficits. I'm here trying to think about where we are in history, not where we've been.
But, is it possible that the Kool-Aid we've been drinking for 40 years, is just that? Kool-Aid.
nh
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Why don't you invite Dr. Lynette Long to post her magnificent pieces here or at least get permission to cross-post. www.lynettelong.com
<p><strong>"</strong>Right wing sledge hammers never, ever help us." Pacific John</p>
I already started posting over there too.
That post of hers was what made me rush this site out. I can't stand the thought of becoming like markos and deleting everything I don't agree with.
And Cal, you get the prize for first comment.
Civil Discourse - ERA - A Mother President - Women's Rights - Primary Reform
Yep, I'm with you on becoming cheeto-like. Sure, run off the REAL trolls, but deleting those on OUR SIDE because they're not afraid to stand up and say right out loud they're casting a strategic vote, and to justify it by the hahahahahaha fantasy of "being taken seriously by the Democratic Party", well - that's a foolish and wobbly bridge waaaay too far for me. Why not just go ahead and suppport and vote for BO? That'll get you some "serious" respect from the DP.
If ever there were a time not to be silent, this is it. Silencing a feminist like Lynette Long?? I'm still shaking my head at the lack of shame exhibited by that horrendously heinous and selfish-to-the-bone action. She deserves better and so do we.
<p><strong>"</strong>Right wing sledge hammers never, ever help us." Pacific John</p>
we'll have to see.
Your prize will be....... the pleasure of my company in this empty nest.
<p>Civil Discourse - ERA - A Mother President - Women's Rights - Primary Reform</p>
...this nest. Just you wait and see. :)
And woooooohooooooo about Dr. Long.
<p><strong>"</strong>Right wing sledge hammers never, ever help us." Pacific John</p>
<p>Could be all that Kool-Aid I've been drinkin' for 40 years. <img src="/modules/tinymce/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-foot-in-mouth.gif" alt="Foot in mouth" title="Foot in mouth" border="0" /></p>
<p>This primary has allowed me to get out of the left-wing echo </p>
<p>chamber and take a look around. You're saying what I've </p>
<p>been feeling, New Hampster. The Dem Party has run out of gas</p>
<p>as far as I can tell.</p>
<p>The party is now the SOP. Sad Old Party.</p>
<p>Civil Discourse - ERA - A Mother President - Women's Rights - Primary Reform</p>
<p>I've been where you are. I'm not going to comment really, other than to say if you would like to discuss this, email me.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>First, I am not a Democrat and came within epsilon of tossing away my vote to Bob Barr. After Palinmania hit the viciousness and misdirected nature of the attacks upon her drove me back to the Republican party.</p>
<p>Just listen to the interview between Pacifica radio and Mike Gravel. Mr. Gravel will not vote for Mrs. Palin nor does he recommend anyone else do so. And his interlocutors keep pressing him to seek her personal destruction. Mr. Gravel is more than willing to articulate several reasons he finds sufficient to vote against the Republican ticket, but all the non-significant or untrue charges put up by the Pacifica announcers sucked all the oxygen from the conversation. </p>
<p>That's the kool aid guys. Life is bigger than elections and political issues. When there are no absolutes, the state is absolute. (Franky Schaeffer's dad said that 30 years ago.) One's personal integrity and the values one asserts have to be maintained. When Neutron Newt took over congress and Clinton was knocked on his heels, it was only when he asserted Democrat values that he recovered.</p>
<p>I happen to be a Conservative but before that I'm a Baptist and before that I'm a Christian. I don't agree with Mr. or Mrs. Clinton's Democrat values. In particular I think the state has an obligation to secure the rights of the unborn. (It's a civil rights thing, not a religious thing for me.) If merely keeping a pro-life consensus off the Supreme Court is your only consideration, we can't talk.</p>
<p>But we can talk and talk civilly if we both agree to some things greater than our partisan differences. Things like democracy, the rule of law, equality before that law, telling the truth and treating honorable people honorably. These aren't Republican wingnut tools of oppression. They're civil values that prevent us from becoming cannibals. </p>
<p>Sure, I'd vote against Mr. Gravel, but I'd do so for valid political reasons and I'd try to sway your vote on that same basis.</p>
<p>I really should not be telling you guys this, I think it's why you blow elections that Republicans deserve to lose. Your party seems to be without the ordinate affections to love the good and hate the evil. Mr. Obama wooed the Evangelical vote and what he SAID had appeal. However, it was what he DID that disclosed a true character that not just Evangelicals should find abhorrent.</p>
The confusion comes on the last one. We don't always agree on who is an honorable person. We do agree that they should all be treated honorably.
Civil Discourse - ERA - A Mother President - Women's Rights - Primary Reform
<p>chew on. I agreed with many of your points instantly and didn't agree with some others instantly. But, your civility of expression keeps my interest piqued and I'm pondering...and re-reading.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Thanks for stopping by. It's good to hear different perspectives. Believe me, my eyes have been opened wide to my party's flaws. </p>
<p><strong>"</strong>Right wing sledge hammers never, ever help us." Pacific John</p>
Civil discourse among all who wish to participate.
Civil Discourse - ERA - A Mother President - Women's Rights - Primary Reform
<p>Hi NewHampster:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I'd like to challenge your opinion on the Republicans changing places. Both parties are guilty of changing postions when politically convinent, but I think the Republican party has been consistent on civil rights.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>You state correctly that the Republicans, the party of Lincoln, were the primary advocates for the abolition of slavery, over the opposition of slave-owning Democrats. This tradition carried through the 1950's and early 60's. President Eisenhower (R) ordered the national guard to forcibly integrate Little Rock Central High School, over the opposition of Arkansas governor Orval Faubus (D). The list goes on and on. The Civil Rights Act of 1960, signed into law by Eisenhower, was continuously filibustered by 18 Democratic Senators. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was a little more complicated, but there was bipartisan support, with some bipartisan but mostly Democratic opposition. Read the history for yourself.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>So how did Republicans get branded as racists? Basically because they wanted tougher criminal laws, less welfare, and no affirmative action - actions that by themselves have no racial component, but did adversly affect disadvantaged minorities.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>In the interests of full disclosure, I am a McCain supporter who came to this site from No Quarter. I am a first-generation immigrant. Unfortunately for the Left, I didn't learn US history from biased textbooks and teachers, but from reading Britannica. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Shinhao Li</p>
<p>Shinhao, You are correct in what you say but the problem is that I/we did grow up here with the propoganda from both sides. I was litterally born a Democrat and have always considered Republicans to be the devil.</p>
<p>It is the few, rare politicians that don't suffer hatred of the other party and John McCain is one. He puts his country and his own beliefs ahead of party. My Candidate Hillary Clinton was much the same and would have offered a similar middle of the road approach to governing.</p>
<p>Thank you again for being here</p>
<p>Civil Discourse - ERA - A Mother President - Women's Rights - Primary Reform</p>
<p>...your knowledge and perspective, Shinhao Li.</p>
<p><strong>"</strong>Right wing sledge hammers never, ever help us." Pacific John</p>
Yes, it really is quite astonishing, the insidious depth of indoctrination that goes on. It really was an eye-opener for me, coming to the US for university studies.
Modern-day young liberals think of the 1960's as a haze of anti-war, civil rights, and general counter-culture mayhem. The civil rights struggles were totally distinct - MLK Jr. was a Republican, and he deplored and denounced the post-modern, counter-cultural left. Very few people cared about the Vietnam war until the draft was re-instated, and in that sense, the anti-war protests were really selfishly-motivated. Ironically, it was Kennedy and LBJ (Democrats) who got us into Vietnam, and Nixon (Republican) who got us out! But now, people believe that it was the Democrats who were pro-civil-rights and anti-war, and consequently, the Republicans must be racist warmongers.
These facts are not even 50 years old, and yet few people know them. Such is the power of propaganda.
I was quite pleased to read your article, which drove me to register and comment, because it's always gratifying to see someone take a step back from their preconceptions. I think, if you look to the Republican Party, you will find that moderates and independents like myself are very welcome. They have Arnold (pro-environment, pro-choice), Giuliani (pro-choice, pro-cross-dressing), and others. Even Lieberman and Zell Miller. There is simply more room for reason and adult debate in the Republican Party than in the close-minded, juvinile, and almost dictatorial Obama left.
As for myself...
I disagree with the Republicans on many issues (gay marriage, the environment, tax policy...the list is endless), but to me, they have gotten the important stuff right. Running a government is serious business. They don't do what's popular or cool with the media/Hollywood crowd, they do what they think is right, even if it will cost them support. They're not ironic. They believe in hard work, fighting for your country, having an clean body and a clean soul.
This all sounds like sappy stuff, but if you read (and I've only read parts of) the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, its easy to see that it's not bad policies that cause the ruin of a nation. It's the decay of spirit. When it's more important to have the right opinions among your elite friends than to stand up for your beliefs, when people wait around for help rather than try by themselves, when being a victim is better than being strong, when empathizng and protesting are preferred to rolling-up sleeves and working, we have a problem. On these most basic issues - the US is worth fighting for, and we are willing to take and inflict pain to preserve it - Republicans have it right.
(Sorry for the rant.)
Thank you for giving us your thoughts and time.
Civil Discourse - ERA - A Mother President - Women's Rights - Primary Reform