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Yes. I believe that Health Care is a Right
I'd move to Europe if I could where health care is a right. Health is not a right and the absolute best care is not a right but in a modern society that posesses the tools of modern medicine, getting that medicine to every person is becoming one of the major purposes of government. It is a right most everywhere but here. And I am going to fight like hell to make it an unalienable right.
Right does not equal Free. We have a right in this country to be protected by the best fighting forces on Earth. If our town was to flood I expect the Guard to protect us. But that right has a price that I gladly pay for with taxes. And those who pay no taxes, does the guard tell them to fuck off and get their own boat?
I never really understood the difference until my son went to work in New Zealand for a summer. Snowboarding some of the most beaultiful mountains on Earth the bum. He was there on, I think, a 6 month work visa for his job at Treble Cone. He lived on the un-frozen Lake Wanaka to the right in the photo I found of the mountain. yeah, Dad was jealous.
He'd been in New Zealand maybe two weeks, working construction before the mountain opened, when he came down with a nasty sinus thing and had to go to as they say, Hospital. All they asked for was his ID before they helped him and gave him the drugs he needed. No bill ever came, no asking for his insurance, no saying you're not a New Zealander so tough shit. Nope. They just did what doctors and nurses love to do. They helped him because he is a human being and in their modern view of the world, human beings have a right to health care.
Health Care is Our Right too but people have been blinded by the propaganda of those who want into our wallets. Open your eyes people.
Everybody In, Nobody Out.
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Here on the Mississippi River we experience flooding fairly often. When it happens we don't wait for the National Guard to come and save us. The whole town gathers at the community center to fill and transport sandbags. If we waited for the Guard we'd drown. There aren't enough of them to begin with and most of them are over in Iraq along with the equipment they might use to actually help the people they're supposed to be guarding.
I can take it a step further. Cedar Rapids, Iowa experienced unprecedented flooding last year. The city fathers, in their infinite wisdom, refused to allow the owners of homes in the flooded area back onto their property to clean up the mess. They had to do studies, prioritize rennovations and evaluate each and every site.
The upshot was that damage which could have been alleviated by the simple application of a couple of gallons of bleach immediately was allowed to go unchecked. Mold, mildew and rot ran rampant, completely destroying properties that could otherwise have been salvaged in a matter of days. Over a year later that area is essentially uninhabited. Homes sit empty while they rot away. The historical Czech neighborhood has been decimated.
And these are government officials who truly meant well. From all available evidence there are few in Congress who really care about anything except the next election and the next big kickback from the big money men. As for the charlatan in the White House, who knows what his objective is? As usual, he's full of pretty words and totally devoid of specifics.
I have a confession to make. I used to support universal health care. My kids are going to the poorhouse insuring themselves and their children. My son has no health insurance and would be at the mercy of the local ER if he needed care. They desperately need help.
What this Congress and this president are trying to foist off on us...Oh, geez...what am I saying? We have no clue what this Congress and this president are trying to foist off on us. Neither do they. They haven't even bothered to read the damn thing, whatever it is. That is the basis for my opposition to a massive spending program at a time when our treasury is empty but for the IOU's we've stuffed it with.
What they're asking for is a blank check, written on
ourour children's account, to pay for something they can't even describe coherently. The simple truth is I do not trust my government to do anything right these days. There's way too much money at stake and way too many agendas in play.When there is a substantive plan in place, to be voted on straight up without earmarks, amendments and under-the-table agreements resulting in windfall profits for insurance companies and Big Pharma, I will reconsider my current opposition to "reform". Not until.
GONE FISHING
I want them to stop and come back with real, true, universal single payer. Period.
I don't expect people to "wait for the National Guard". That my friend is a Rush Limbaugh type of word twisting. You are also in a rural area where people are always more self sufficient because that's how they want to be or they would not be farmers. Inner city people, even in a small place like Cedar Rapids, are not as self sufficient. Cities actually serve the purpose of serving everyone. That's why people live in cities. If I moved 5 miles north, I'd be in a city with buses, parks, public pools, sidewalks and all the other services people in cities have come to accept. I choose not to but that doesn't mean I expect those city folk to be like we are. In our Ice storm last December, closest we come to disaster, we all helped each other out. Sharing chain saws, generators and sweat. But the guard did patrol many areas that went without power for over 5 days.
Which brings me to my biggest pet peeve. I understand that there are places where are food is grown, but why do intelligent people live in the flood plain? Why year after year do we watch homes get rebuilt with federal disaster relief in places like the mississippi flood zones, the burning hills of California, the coastal towns of my own New England. Why do I help people live where no human was meant to sleep? becaue my country even helps the stubborn ones.
Why is the question of health care for all any different?
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Actually, the people in Cedar Rapids weren't living in a common flood plain. The flood that drowned their neighborhood was higher than any flood on record. As with the devastating Midwest flood of 1993, it just started raining and didn't stop. It's estimated that at one time or another during the 1993 event over seventy percent of the state was under water.
Hamp, where do you draw the line? Do you tell people in California they can't live near a fault zone? Force the residents of Greensburg, KS to move because they've been hit by tornadoes twice in the last few years? Make seventy percent of Iowa off-limits because it once flooded? You're heading down a very slippery slope when you start telling people where they can and can't live based on a possible risk to them.
Certainly there are known flood plains where people shouldn't live. Those who chose to live there are usually not eligible for insurance coverage. They're on their own and I don't have a problem with that.
I do have a problem with excusing city folk from self-sufficiency. (And I don't think your argument necessarily holds water. ;-) The residents of Cedar Rapids were desperate to get back into their homes. The government would not allow it.)
If we accept what you wrote as true though, big-city dwellers have advantages I don't out here in the boonies...twenty-four-hour professional firemen, mass transit, shopping centers, state-of-the-art hospitals, paved roads, cultural centers, sidewalks. Is it fair to argue that opting for that lifestyle excuses them from taking care of themselves? What you seem to be advocating is that those of us who still retain a little self-sufficiency subsidize those who don't. That's a disturbing concept and creates a two-class society...the "do's" and the "do not's".
I need to quit. I got the most unsettling feeling of deja vu typing the above...as though I'd already written it before and hurt your feelings when I did. If I've gone too far, please forgive me.
enter last word here:______________________________________________________________
GONE FISHING
"Hamp, where do you draw the line? Do you tell people in California they can't live near a fault zone? Force the residents of Greensburg, KS to move because they've been hit by tornadoes twice in the last few years?"
Perfect example, creeper!
Why do I help people live where no human was meant to sleep? becaue my country even helps the stubborn ones.
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where no human was meant to sleep. I want that to be their choice and the consequences borne by the people who accept that risk.
Back to health care for a moment. And no, I'm not going to argue my position further. The truth is, I'm dealing from fear here and you all know why. It's not the result of right-wing fear-mongering. It's a direct result of our own experience with government health care. I'm sorry. I just can't get past a VA surgeon giving the love of my life what very probably would have amounted to a death sentence.
In the end, we all go with our own experience. Mine has led me to the point that I cannot trust my government with our health care. It's just that simple. I can't.
But what I wouldn't give for those of you who do trust the government to have that option. May we find the answer soon.
GONE FISHING
But you're a genuine liberal, Hampster, who actually believes in these principles. Many of your readers? Notsomuch. They believed in Hillary Clinton. Once she left the scene, it was open season for them. Whoever hit their emotional rallying point.
For many, that was Sarah Palin. An ideologically altogether different sort of human being. Now they're praising Glenn Beck, talking birth certificates, death panels, whatever he and Hannity have to say.
Deep inside, I know that kind of strange bedfellowing deeply troubles you.
to show up with a gratuitous whack at Sarah Palin.
The amateur psychologist shtick is a new one, though. It needs some polishing.
Layla, just FYI, those death panels already exist in the purest form of government health care we have today...the VA. Or haven't you bothered to read my posts here?
GONE FISHING
Where is the "gratuitous whack" in the following statement?
Should I call her an "asshole"? No, that's your kind of language, not mine, isn't it...?
at the peeps what get flooded or washed off a seacliff every couple of years.
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When Barack Obama is for it, you are against it. Otherwise, you have an open mind. THAT is the sum of your current political ideology, Creeper.
I am deliberately violating the one rule of this blog...civility...to get your attention. Given that your post was a direct personal attack I feel justified in doing so.
You will NOT define me on this site, troll. The people here know me and they know better. Waste all the keystrokes you want. You got here too late.
Now I will violate my own personal rule and place you on "ignore".
GONE FISHING
The Queen of civility strikes again.
I don't define you on this site, creeper. Your own words define you more rigidly than anything I could say.
This is soooo incredibly disappointing. It's a direct slap in the face to the blog's proprietor who has asked us all for only one thing - civility. So, do we all now get to resort to very ugly street-level name calling because we feel "justified?" I'm sure at one time or another we have all felt justified, but our better angels, our self-control, our respect for Hampy, kept us from going there. I hope I never see this at Hampy's blog again, or it will have truly lost its meaning, and what separated it from the mean cheeto-type places in the cyber world. It's a slippery slope into a cyber bar room brawl and there's surely enough of those out there already.
Take a deep breath and take a step back from the keyboard. We can disagree, even strongly, without being disagreeable.
"Right wing sledge hammers never, ever help us." Pacific John
Just as we are all learning to be civil after many years of forced rudeness in cheeto-land, I to am learning to manage this growing community.
I initially condoned your comment because as i awoke this morning, very late in the pitter patter of rain, I thought it sort of funny. But further thought over cereal and the reading of Cal's repsonse have me taking this for the serious issue it is.
Creeper. Partizane is about women, about politics, formed by mostly Clinton supporters who felt lost in the wasteland of the "progressive" blogs. We came here to try and bring civility back to political discussion. You failed today, but I forgive you. Just please try and learn. You are not to old to learn are you?
Did Tip O'Neil and Ronald Reagan swear at each other during their battles? Other than a flip of the finger, did Hillary and Obama swear at each other in order to emphasize their point. No. I'm sure Hillary had a few choice words in private but that is in private and there is a difference.
Partizane is about Civil Political Discourse among adults because I truly believe that with intelligent, grownup, civil discussion more of the un-civil masses will hear the message. Because there is one truth I've learned. Speaking with great skill or writing is important in life but The most important skill we can learn is to listen. To listen.
Un-civil language is a shield. It is used to distract an opponent's thought from the issues and has no place at Partizane.
All I ask is the easy rule I follow and you'll notice that I don't comment often. If I disagree with someone deep in my heart, I go onto the the next thread and don't bother getting involved because I know i am too passionate about some things like the right to universal health care.
Listen
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how is it that you could possibly know the sum of creeper's "current political ideology?" I don't think you do, you don't live inside her head or heart, do you? You perhaps have an opinion, and you're entitled to it and even to express it. Layla, it's not so much what one says sometimes, it's how they say it. Is there any way to epxress yourself with being perhaps a tad bit less confrontational? Just sayin'....
"Right wing sledge hammers never, ever help us." Pacific John
Only as it has been demonstrated on the basis of 100% consistency. Of course I "don't live inside her head or heart". I only know her ideology insofar as Creeper's postings illuminate it.
If Barack Obama is for it, she is against it. Even if she was for it last week, when his position was unknown. Creeper always has the opportunity to prove me wrong. She declines it regularly.
It was particularly galling to watch Creeper call those who did not support Hillary sexists all year long, and then, when Sonia Sotomayor was nominated, announce that gender solidarity had nothing to do with it, and that she could not support the nomination of this brilliant female jurist, and that nobody better call her sexist for saying so!
Gee, yes, isn't it interesting how opposition to a female nominee may not always be rooted in misogyny!
You're right. I need to work on that. Others here could take that lesson from you also...
And I don't really want to move to Europe. Well, not that much. But it's not because of Health Care. I do love my country and I can't imagine living full-time anywhere else.
Fall in Tuscany, winter in Barbados and Florida, spring and summer up here in New England. Now that would be where powerball would go if I won.
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Everybody knows it was just for effect and you don't really want to move from this fabulous country of ours.
I believe it is a right, and this is why....
The Declaration of Independence states:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness
if you don't have access to health-care for yourself, then life, liberty and happiness goes out the window. I can tell you from experience, that trying to work and support yourself, while chronically ill, and not being able to go to a doctor, is difficult at best and becomes impossible in the end. It's hard to be happy when your health goes south, and you can't get treatment. If you're sick enough and don't have access to treatments, testing, procedures or surgery, then there goes your "right to life." Well , there's always liberty...you basically have the freedom to get sick and die.
Oh yeah, I hear, "well you can go to the emergency room, if you're uninsured." Well, who the hell is going to pay that bill...the health-care fairy? If you go to the E.R., they do little but stabilize you and send you on your way. You won't get many tests or procedures done there. Guess what, you're even expected to pay the bill, no matter what. The hospital wants its money and means to get it one way or another. If you don't pay-up, they will ruin your credit, and make your life miserable. Having to find a way to pay more than $14,000 in hospital, surgeon, anesthesia, and lab bills, was a nightmare for me. I never want anyone to experience what I have had to.
Everybody needs to be secure in the thought that they can see a doctor and get the treatment they need, no matter their economic status. As it stands now, those who can afford it, get the best and those who cannot, get the shaft. If people are to be self-supporting and productive, then they need decent health-care, period. BTW, when the unisured go for too long with a problem, they ultimately end-up in terrible shape in the local E.R. Somebody, say, in complete kidney failure, could rack up many thousands in hospital debt, because they had to go too long without care. If they can't pay the exorbitant bill, then who do you think pays? Taxpayers and those who do have insurance coverage, through higher prices at hospitals and clinics, to cover those who can't pay. I see insuring everyone, as a way to save money in the long-run.
Yes, it will be expensive to cover everyone. Things that are worthwhile usually are. If it takes some special tax and everyone has to contribute something in order for everyone to be covered, then that is what has to be. I think there is plenty enough money already, if the government would just reform giveaway programs like welfare, food stamps, subsidized housing, energy assistance, and the list goes on. These programs are fraught with abuse and fraud. There are countless other programs that could be done away with or scaled down, to find the money to pay for universal health-care. And lets not forget the obvious....end the wars and this gives us a huge amount of money to work with, right there.
We won't be payng the exorbitant salaries of the Insurance crooks for one. Medicare supposedly saves billions over what it would cost to insure the elderly with private insurance.
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The ability for people to seek treatment and get it, before their problems become catastrophic alone, will save money. I don't know why people can't see this.
especially: "And let's not forget the obvious...........end the wars.........."
"Everybody needs to be secure in the thought that they can see a doctor and get the treatment they need, no matter their economic status."
Being secure would be nice. But as Hillary Clinton's parents told her, (1:30 mark) there is no security, life is unpredictable, don't EXPECT anyone to take care of you.
I agree we should all rally and take care of each other.
The security I speak of, catfish, is knowing that you have a card in your wallet that you can present to a health-care provider, that guarantees you will be examined by said health-care provider and given the treatment you need.
You said it better than I ever could...
If not a right, is health care de facto a priviledge? Should something so basic be a priviledge? Health care really is a question of fundamental humanity. How could any civilized and humane human being oppose healthcare for all, most especially for the so-called "least of us."
They oppose a right wing propaganda version that has been drilled into their heads.
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The Reagan pr guys succeeded in embedding the anti-government propaganda into the countryside's mindset, as now pretty much a given. It does seem funny though that many self-proclaimed patriots hate our own government so much. They love our military though.
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A friend in her late 60's, childless, stepmother of three, fought back from stage four lymphoma by getting a bone marrow transplant. Her changes for surviving this long were under 50%.
This treatment, and those before it that failed, cost a LOT of money. In the future maybe someone like her could get it on the black market, if they have the means. Who knows.
Healthcare is a right but not health insurance. If we're sick or in an accident, we all have the right to get the immediate care we need. Anyone can get it, rich or poor, with or without insurance.
The only people who don't have insurance are between the ages of 21 and 64 but 90% of them do have insurance or who can afford it but don't want it. What we're left with is about 10 million Americans who don't have insurance for various reasons. These people have a right to receive the care they need but at the moment, they don't have a right to have insurance. If you want them to have insurance, you're going to have to foot the bill.
The US could have a free version of Medicaid for those Americans aged 21 to 64 who are below the poverty line. Those above it could pay some sort of fee.
As for rights, we have the right to have quality and affordable healthcare. We have the right to expect our representatives to represent our interests, not those of lawyers and insurance companies. The only reason healthcare costs are rising so fast is because of those lawyers and insurance companies who are buying off Congress. If you want to complain about rights, complain about that. Follow the damn money. This isn't about Democrats or Republicans, left or right or about ideologies or rights. It's about corruption. If you want to complain about something, complain about that.
The best town hall even I've seen yet was the one near here in Reston that was hosted by my congressman, Jim Moran, with special guest Howard Dean. A gentleman in the audience asked why we don't have tort reform and Howard Dean gave an honest answer.
I think he's due and I love how he's being a fly in the ointment.
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But that is no kind of way to manage our nation's health care. Have you seen the size of an emergency room bill that goes uncovered by insurance? And the people who are taking that kind of "emergency care" are the poor and uninsured. So the very people who can't find money for an insurance policy are made to get their medical treatment during an emergency room visit that is going to cost them at least $500-$1000. And if they choose not to pay the bill (this happens all the time), the hospital passes on the cost to the insured and their carriers.
This system also encourages widespread fraud, as since emergency rooms cannot turn anyone away, the poor often give fake names to the admitting nurse, so that they can never be charged for anything.
Also, immediate care is the worst kind of care. What is needed, not only for the health of our citizens but also to contain costs, is preventative care.
and a lot of effort. How can healthcare be a right?
This is like "information wants to be free." Oh yeah? So does housing, housing wants to be free. So does health care. Top-notch health care.
She can't post from her phone and wanted to add to the discussion while she's away from home.
It may not be a right, but I would think it's the obligation of our
government to protect every citizen. Rich and poor, young and old.
That's not done by allowing millions to live here without medical
assistance when they are ill. Don't we want productive citizens? You
can't contribute to our society if you're sick. How do you think this
country will function if there is a pandemic, and only those who have
health insurance can get vaccinated, or treated when they come down
with a virus. Do you want the poorer paid populace who either aren't
covered, or can't afford to be covered serving your meals, waiting on
you at grocery stores, handling your money at gas stations, etc. etc.
when they're ill? I went into a Starbucks the other day and the woman
behind the counter was coughing up a storm, coughing into her elbow
(which they advice us to do nowadays) and people started leaving the
store without ordering. How much did Starbucks lose that day because
this employee couldn't afford to take a sick day? When you can't seek
medical assistance (cause you're not covered or can't afford it) and
you don't get sick days you simply go to work. And how many people
will be affected? How many people will get sick? How much do you
think it costs this country because it doesn't protect ALL of its
citizens? It's like a war is being waged on our soil here, and our
government is saying, "We will only allow troops in New York, Kansas
City, and Seattle. Those are the only citizens we'll protect. The
rest of you are on your own."
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Great post, Hamp. And I must admit the thought has crossed my mind several times about moving out of country. My husband is 100% Swede - only 2 generations removed from a native - and there are relatives there. Very tempting if it weren't for the weather and darkness.
Why can't the U.S. join the rest of the world with healthcare for its citizens?!?
Obama needs to throw out the deals that were made with Insurance lobbyists and PHRMA and go for single payer. (I am an Independent and believe both parties are playiing games.)
For Obamas Universal health care....with thier Pooled profits...You know..Spread that wealth around..oh...and thown in the" Kennedy Foundation for Free health Care" join in too..in Memory of Teddy..lead by Example...Besides the U.s. treasury and most american people are broke or going broke..